tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post2745067089434080972..comments2023-06-08T04:15:43.908-05:00Comments on The Lost Albatross: Universal health care...or deathEmilyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11393762115493350763noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-42315708647052664932009-10-07T12:17:09.581-05:002009-10-07T12:17:09.581-05:00Palmer: I agree that showing some sort of reciproc...Palmer: I agree that showing some sort of reciprocity is, unfortunately, necessary (I say "unfortunately" because it kind of sucks that folks don't think keeping other folks healthy should be a community effort unless they get something directly in return). I try to include that line of reasoning in my arguments as often as possible, but I guess I assumed it was obvious enough to leave out this time. It's possible I'm wrong. It's happened before. :)<br /><br />Making sure people have access to affordable, quality health care leads to lower costs in the long run and puts less of a burden on a society. Focusing on prevention and early treatment means less money and manpower spent on more serious illness down the line.<br /><br />A lot of this actually has more to do with health care costs than insurance, though. The fact that medical care (the medicine especially) is so astronomically expensive seems to be what causes most of the problems. Companies providing insurance to employees have to pay more. Government programs pay more. Individuals pay a shitton more when they can't afford coverage or are denied coverage for one asinine reason or another. It's the double whammy of a broken insurance system <i>and</i> a broken pricing system.<br /><br />Because, let's face it, "payment plans" aren't going to cut it when an uninsured or under-insured person is staring down tens of thousands of dollars in debt because they dared get sick. That simply should not be a possible outcome.Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11393762115493350763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-85009318947588166322009-10-07T12:01:56.321-05:002009-10-07T12:01:56.321-05:00HI XedgeX69 -I suspect that libertarian types woul...HI XedgeX69 -I suspect that libertarian types would say you're comparing apples and oranges. The police and fire depts provide services that directly affect the property and welfare of every taxpayer. So, take that someone who pays her own health insurance. She directly benefits from the police and fire dept, i.e. - fires at her residence are put out and threats to her person and property are dealt with. However, paying for your health care does not.<br /><br />I would add that there is a difference between denying healthcare and arguing over who pays for it. The libertarians don't want treatment to be denied to anyone, they just don't think the government should force someone to pay for others' healthcare. For instance, if you undergo treatment and can't afford it, then you become responsible for the bills that you will receive. Pay via an installment plan. You get the treatment and you pay for it. Or find insurance via an employer.<br /><br />A personal observation here: I think that saying "basic healthcare is part of the commons" or "it is an inherent right and you can't convince me otherwise" as Emily did is, rhetorically speaking, the wrong way to go about convincing millions of people to pay for their own insurance as well as that of others. I think the rhetoric needs to show some kind of reciprocity. I'm not a rhetorician by trade, but I do think showing how everyone will benefit is a better approach than demanding rights that have by no means been agreed upon by everyone.Skiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152773998591751737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-91124252176199501142009-10-07T08:10:48.822-05:002009-10-07T08:10:48.822-05:00Does the government have the authority to coerce p...Does the government have the authority to coerce people and violate their individual sovereignty to pay for fire departments and police to maintain order and save other people's lives?<br /><br />i believe that basic healthcare is part of the commons. something that the government is charged with upholding.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-18441987766593450632009-10-06T19:00:26.764-05:002009-10-06T19:00:26.764-05:00I don't know if you caught this before, but ma...I don't know if you caught this before, but many Republicans were for death panels in 2003 before they flip flopped and turned against them.<br /><br />http://www.newser.com/story/66922/gop-backed-death-panels-in-2003.html<br /><br />Let me play devil's advocate for a moment. Where does the right for good, cheap health care come from? You're just pulling a right out of thin air, no? Allow me to do the same: I have a right not to foot the bill for others' health care bills. I pay my own insurance premiums and they should do the same.<br /><br />Not playing devil's advocate, I must admit that the health care debate is one of those issues that really cuts to the core of the American dilemma. Does the government have the authority to coerce people and violate their individual sovereignty to pay for other people's welfare? (And I mean welfare as in well-being, not welfare as in an aid program.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-59422771718165966052009-10-06T13:04:59.053-05:002009-10-06T13:04:59.053-05:00But no matter the issue there will always be idiot...But no matter the issue there will always be idiots that believe outlandish rhetoric. I say pass what you think is right and if it turns out to be effective the opposition(especially the looney ones) will suffer politically for there idiocracy.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15206203962349256797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-33231212775304776822009-10-06T12:55:08.373-05:002009-10-06T12:55:08.373-05:00Your point is well taken, but the sad truth is tha...Your point is well taken, but the sad truth is that the "death panel" and other similarly absurd talking points have resonated with a lot of people, and we need to make sure those sorts of things get shot down with vigor and honesty. Just ignoring them when they've already taken root with any significant portion of the population doesn't do any good.<br /><br />And I made it very clear that I'm holding both Democrats and Republicans responsible for the mess on the Hill. They all play their parts, as do we.Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11393762115493350763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-15536485297181977002009-10-06T12:37:17.979-05:002009-10-06T12:37:17.979-05:00i did and my point is who cares what Repubs say or...i did and my point is who cares what Repubs say or think about death panels, etc.. we dont need them to get reform so why waste time talking about or worrying about what they think or say.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15206203962349256797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-84905691881860822432009-10-06T12:03:11.873-05:002009-10-06T12:03:11.873-05:00Shane, did you actually read the post?Shane, did you actually read the post?Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11393762115493350763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-10138253611177391582009-10-06T11:52:03.737-05:002009-10-06T11:52:03.737-05:00Dem majority in house and senate plus Dem presiden...Dem majority in house and senate plus Dem president. Time to stop blaming the gop for reform not happening. Dems have the #'s, time to get something done, gop opinions dont matter at this point.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15206203962349256797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-84804130538601354812009-10-06T10:24:45.065-05:002009-10-06T10:24:45.065-05:00smed - That whole "real Americans" bulls...smed - That whole "real Americans" bullshit pulled so often by the very people most likely to screw over actual Americans drives me nuts. We need more small business owners like you to stand up and speak out. Thanks!<br /><br />Tim - Hah, agreed! I take the same stance on health care as I do on free speech: I may not agree with or like you, but I'm going to defend your right to say what's on your mind and have quality, affordable health care. <br /><br />edge - Thank goodness for BadgerCare. But you're right, it's not enough (especially since getting coverage for childless single ladies like me is so damn hard!), and it would actually <i>help</i> a lot of small businesses to have a public option. The raging opposition is just the fruit of years of fear mongering and scare tactics by the moneyed interests as they've duped regular folk into believing the whole "socialism = tyranny!" line of bull.<br /><br />MIKE - It would be nice, wouldn't it?Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11393762115493350763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-90576088300506992172009-10-06T09:36:24.594-05:002009-10-06T09:36:24.594-05:00Amen sister! I think you have summed up exactly wh...Amen sister! I think you have summed up exactly what I have been thinking about this mess ever since people have started talking about it. I'm sorry to hear about your mom and all the challenges that your whole family faced. I don't understand what is wrong with people who scream about "socialized medicine" being the downfall of our society. What the hell is wrong with treating people humanely? I thought that was part of being human. I just hope that we as a country do not screw this chance up and actually do something helpful, for the people and not the corporations this time.MIKEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15760705444265894908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-64397937050647952472009-10-06T09:03:06.495-05:002009-10-06T09:03:06.495-05:00My family is dependent on Badgercare for it's ...My family is dependent on Badgercare for it's medical coverage because i am one of 2 employees at the business i work for. with so few employees, providing health insurance is prohibitively expensive for them. our monthly premium for a family of 4 would have been over 1/3 of what i make in a month. add rent and a car payment to that, and it's more than i make in a month. thank god Badgercare is there, or we'd have to try the don't get sick/die quickly health option. a national public option would provide relief to our state run services, allowing more people to be covered, and allowing true small businesses to build a healthy and productive workforce.lucky for us (in more than one way) that we have kids. it removes some of the restrictions that non-parents have in applying and maintaining Badgercare coverage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-82834108847954740702009-10-05T17:24:32.696-05:002009-10-05T17:24:32.696-05:00Emily, sorry to hear about your mom. I've hear...Emily, sorry to hear about your mom. I've heard so many similar stories, and have a few of my own. And I've also had insurance my entire life. I had to beg on my hands and knees to get my dad to vote for Obama. But he continues to get forward after forward of right-wing crap emails talking about "death panels" and whatnot. All I can say to him is "Dad, would you pay higher taxes if it meant I'd live longer?" I would gladly pay ridiculously high taxes for universal health care. It can't be much more than what I'm paying now towards the credit cards I had to use to pay off my old medical debt! And yes, I'd even pay those taxes to give free health care to Bill O'Reilly. Even though he doesn't deserve it. :)JRamoneWIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03896379444035712155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-50171448476964915712009-10-05T16:51:42.615-05:002009-10-05T16:51:42.615-05:00Oh, dear God! I'm so sorry to hear about your ...Oh, dear God! I'm so sorry to hear about your Mom. The grief and pain is enough - but the indignity of bankruptcy is even worse. I wrote a letter to John Boehner saying that I'm a REAL American (small business owner even) and I want SINGLE PAYER, since he doesn't know any real Americans that want a public option.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-74273414071048030722009-10-05T15:38:46.597-05:002009-10-05T15:38:46.597-05:00Michael - Agreed.
LdM - Cripes, bro, how do you f...Michael - Agreed.<br /><br />LdM - Cripes, bro, how do you find out about this stuff? Not that I'm surprised. Infuriated, yes, but not surprised. I kind of wish I was, though.Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11393762115493350763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-11388465696070495342009-10-05T15:31:43.195-05:002009-10-05T15:31:43.195-05:00You left out the best part. When the cysts were f...You left out the best part. When the cysts were finally removed and recovery was supposed to being, mysterious fungal infections began to appear; infections that the doctors couldn't find the source of.<br />Curiously at about the time that she was in I.C.U., Chicago hospitals had been sent a bad batch of sutures - the same sort that were used on her. The bad sutures weren't sterile, and caused patients to develop fungal infections. Since the sutures dissolved by design, proving this would be tricky, but the coincidence remains.<br />Healthy, no?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05869892008791042219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-78556722724042950492009-10-05T15:27:56.086-05:002009-10-05T15:27:56.086-05:00Oy, I was familiar with what happened to your moth...Oy, I was familiar with what happened to your mother but I didn't realize the financial you had to go through as well. No one should have to go through that for any reason.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07502635783661870270noreply@blogger.com