tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post8537662787356013715..comments2023-06-08T04:15:43.908-05:00Comments on The Lost Albatross: How do you solve a problem like a gay bar?Emilyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11393762115493350763noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-27485975026732432872012-08-28T08:48:32.006-05:002012-08-28T08:48:32.006-05:00I seriously dont mind straight people coming into ...I seriously dont mind straight people coming into a gay bar and acting drunk . ....it is after all a bar. just like I would prefer catty ,self obsessed ,social bigots werent allowed in the bar I was in either. Cant we all just get along? Women hold the majority of the vote...Women are the majority of voters at the polls if the world isnt what you would like it to be since the 1930's you have absolutley no one to blame but yourselves . Would it not be better to intigrate our cultures rather than segregate them because you feel a little uncomfortable with your sexuality?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-7723544630433114172012-08-28T06:14:14.769-05:002012-08-28T06:14:14.769-05:00I'm not a club owner either, but ultimately I ...I'm not a club owner either, but ultimately I think it comes down to turning away business that is not your target market. Yeah, businesses hate to turn away customers, but if you don't differentiate yourself (as a business), you'll end up like all the rest -- a commodity. <br /><br />I think gay clubs should ABSOLUTELY turn away bachelorette parties. It's not discrimination (in the legal sense), it's "that's not our desired customer". How many bachelorette parties, complete with penis hats & glittery sashes, happen at L'etoile? (I'll wait while you count...)<br /><br />As for straight dudes cruising for women, that's tougher. Might not be able to do anything about it directly, but indirectly -- higher cover charge for single males, lower cover charge for same-sex couples, more gay/lesbian-targeted entertainment. Maybe they are doing all that already and it's just not working effectively?<br /><br />Just some early-morning rantings!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-2735232311120462072012-08-27T20:59:59.715-05:002012-08-27T20:59:59.715-05:00Thanks all - for the compliments, but also for car...Thanks all - for the compliments, but also for carrying on a rational discussion about this issue.<br /><br />I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I think Vibrissa summed up my general feelings on the matter well: "hey, this is a safe space for my community and if you're not respecting that community, you should go back to your own safe space (i.e., the rest of the world)."<br /><br />Honestly, we could apply that to any club/bar/venue. I don't go to a sports bar and demand that they show the opera on their TVs just for me. And if I did, I would expect someone to tell me to fuck off (but, y'know, politely).Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11393762115493350763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-7430768560294156912012-08-27T15:45:51.618-05:002012-08-27T15:45:51.618-05:00True. As a straight white middle class male, I am ...True. As a straight white middle class male, I am as privileged as they come. My opinions and experiences go as far as my friends, conversations, and articles/blogs/books. I have not experienced the first hand hate and exclusion that the LGBT community has experienced. And because of that, my expectation of the queer community to stay inclusive may not be valid.<br /><br />By "take the higher ground" I mean dont exclude anyone. I'm fighting right with you to try and stop the straight community from excluding the LGBT community from equal rights. I do expect more from the straight community as well. But unfortunately, I see an exclusion, (even one as simple and common sense based as no bachelorette parties at LGBT bars) as anti-productive in a movement that is fighting for inclusion.<br /><br />As far as unwanted gropping and grabbing. It is sad and gross that it happens at any bar and much worse an LGBT establishment where a safe place gets ruined. I feel it would be very legitimate for asshole guys like that to get kicked out for molesting strangers. Maybe more security on dance floors is the answer.privileged white guynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-37502276182087658262012-08-27T13:37:05.062-05:002012-08-27T13:37:05.062-05:00> Yes, the community has been and still is excl...> Yes, the community has been and still is excluded from so much. And it is not fair. But, in order for change to take place, someone needs to bite their lip and take the higher ground.<br /><br />I don't think I necessarily have any fundamental disagreements with you, but this sentiment always grates, especially when it's coming from a position of privilege--I agree that it's great for people (everyone) to take the higher ground, but acknowledging that it's unfair to expect that burden to rest mostly on the queer community doesn't actually make it okay to have that expectation. And for that matter, maybe I do think it's all right to be exclusive--not like "no straight people ever, grar," but like "hey, this is a safe space for my community and if you're not respecting that community, you should go back to your own safe space (i.e., the rest of the world)."Vibrissanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-55544415126082035282012-08-27T13:28:51.920-05:002012-08-27T13:28:51.920-05:00So well said on all fronts. As a lesbian who walk...So well said on all fronts. As a lesbian who walks happily in the middle of the butches and the femmes, I grow weary of being hit on by straight men in "my" club. It happened again at Pride for heaven's sakes. Luckily, this young man needed little persuasion to stagger off in another direction, but please. My long-time partner and I would come to the club more often, we love to dance, but in the 6 times we've been there, all 6 included one or both of us being groped/grabbed by straight men. One time, I actually resorted to a serious elbow throw to get the creep to back off. I complained to the owners in 2011, who said they were taking steps to remedy the issue, but we saw no difference on the Sat. of Pride 2012. Granted, it's tough for the owners to regulate, but perhaps they should have bouncers mingling on the d/l around the dance floor to really put a stop to this offensive behavior when it occurs.<br /><br />I certainly don't want to "ban" anyone from our club, but it's a sad day when the queers stay home just to avoid the unwanted attention of rude, straight men.<br /><br />And ladies, please be polite & take your bachelorette party somewhere else. It's tremendously poor form (not to mention callous & unfeeling) to flaunt your right to marry in front of those of us who are fighting for equal footing on this important issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-39942390454131385632012-08-27T12:41:20.905-05:002012-08-27T12:41:20.905-05:00I agree with this article and he comments...partic...I agree with this article and he comments...particularly Privelaged White Guy's. As a gay male, we never intend to exclude and we should take the higher road but that is not always easy. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-85516962362714751672012-08-27T11:15:55.018-05:002012-08-27T11:15:55.018-05:00Very well put. As a white straight male who occasi...Very well put. As a white straight male who occasionally goes to gay bars with his gay friends, it is important for me to think about my actions when at a LGBT establishment. And yes, I wish it were common sense that bachelorette parties not come at all to gay bars. And if they do, to think about their actions and act with respect.<br /> I completely understand that you are not dis-inviting the straight community from gay bars, but I do want to play devils advocate and say that exclusivity (in any form) is not a route that the LGBT community should take. Yes, the community has been and still is excluded from so much. And it is not fair. But, in order for change to take place, someone needs to bite their lip and take the higher ground. And I have a much higher faith in the LGBT community than I do the straight community.<br /><br />So, yes, please complain about and call out asshole dudes who come to gay bars with the sole purpose of attempting to pick girls, but please dont be quick to judge (not that you are). And although it was put very eloquently, and in a way that shouldnt offend anyone, I dont think there should be rules that exclude anyone from a bar. Even bachelorette parties. (although a nationwide ban on bachelorette parties I could get behind)<br /><br />Thanks for writing. It made me think about my own actions. And hopefully it will lead to more discussion and positive change.privileged white guynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-38113556508472911032012-08-27T11:09:47.362-05:002012-08-27T11:09:47.362-05:00So well said. I always struggle to express these ...So well said. I always struggle to express these thoughts while remaining inclusive. I, too, am a queer woman in a straight relationship, and most always go without my S.O. I always have mixed feelings when we go together. We don't want to be a part of the problem so we stay away from PDA as well. But that's hard too because I'd like to be with my community and partner without feeling like I have to separate the two. A lot to think about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-69015514177433415462012-08-27T10:08:59.324-05:002012-08-27T10:08:59.324-05:00I think in these difficult times people look for t...I think in these difficult times people look for the best. Our scene includes cheaper, better drinks, and generally better music. There is a sense of 1930's sensibility, "Do what you can with what you got, where you are at."Suburbhomesteadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10177499278966582738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5044318737317983833.post-76833532256074596902012-08-27T09:55:59.192-05:002012-08-27T09:55:59.192-05:00Thank you for expressing what I couldn't. &qu...Thank you for expressing what I couldn't. "Just be polite." <br /><br />-Sister Shawnti :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10525552730986328893noreply@blogger.com